Curse

Mouse at Large · Nov 22, 2011, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Don't get it - Storm Chaser and Stone Striker would give you the speed and energy, but you'd still need more damage mitigation I think. Plus at 12 WS Storm Chaser cant be maintained. Nice idea, but too fragile unless in some low lvl areas.

Still, I could be wrong......

*edit for Jeydra below* As above, with the added thought that you could use Troll Unguent for a heal when you are taking damage during Storm Chaser downtime. Still think that when you try to put a bar together, you are going to find that you can't get a really good build for anything other than low-lvl farming areas or some very specialised mobs. Oh, and any enchant stripping/mid to high lvl degen or caster hate will likely kill you

Jeydra · Nov 23, 2011, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Wait, Natural Stride doesn't give you energy and neither does Stone Striker, although the former does give 50% chance to block (which is how you tank I suppose?) and increased move speed. Stone Striker only gives energy (and damage reduction) when paired with Mantra of Earth, which you can't use with Natural Stride. Or are you thinking of a different skill?

If you don't like Kinetic Armour + Dash, you can use Kinetic Armour + Stone Daggers with Aura of Restoration and Earth Attunement ... with GoLE or Ether Renewal or Elemental Attunement support if you really, really cared about it you'll never run out of energy.

The real question though is, if you're looking to run faster in PvE why wouldn't you use "Fall Back!" in your team? And if you wanted to tank, why wouldn't you use all the defensive Earth skills out there (of which there are plenty)?

InStars · Nov 24, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Don't get it - Storm Chaser and Stone Striker would give you the speed and energy, but you'd still need more damage mitigation I think. Plus at 12 WS Storm Chaser cant be maintained. Nice idea, but too fragile unless in some low lvl areas.

Still, I could be wrong......

*edit for Jeydra below* As above, with the added thought that you could use Troll Unguent for a heal when you are taking damage during Storm Chaser downtime. Still think that when you try to put a bar together, you are going to find that you can't get a really good build for anything other than low-lvl farming areas or some very specialised mobs. Oh, and any enchant stripping/mid to high lvl degen or caster hate will likely kill you

Yea, you are right, i meant Storm Chaser not Natural Stride.

My suggestion was more like a good skill combination for E/R, not a complete build.
Normally you would use perma Obby Flesh for tanking/farming with this. BTW it's maintainable with Dwarven Stability I think, but you don't really need to maintain it for general use.

I mean - it's a good alternative to Mantra, since it gives nice speed boost and even more energy. For example, if you are farming something, but some stronger mobs you don't want to farm appear on your agroo - with Storm Chaser you can actually break the agroo, and avoid fighting/dieing.

My main point suggesting this was, that E/R is not completely useless combination as it was stated in first post

skyliner · Nov 25, 2011, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Share the attributes you use on that bar skyliner? I'll try them out myself.

These are the attributes I use:

Air magic: 10+3 (headpiece + rune)
Energy Storage: 4+1
Dagger Mastery: 12
Deadly Arts: 7

You could try playing around with 'em, but these I've found the most versatile.

Another option to avoid energy problems, is to swap falling spider for Lotus Strike, but that reduces the damage a LOT and I don't recommend it.
Like I said, this is the most , dare I say the only, efficacious use I've found for water magic. It's fragility it's only overcome by it's capacity for damage.

Coupled with a Splinter Weapon rt, you can decimate mobs faster than 3 fire eles combined.

HigherMinion · Nov 25, 2011, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyliner

These are the attributes I use:

Air magic: 10+3 (headpiece + rune)
Energy Storage: 4+1
Dagger Mastery: 12
Deadly Arts: 7

You could try playing around with 'em, but these I've found the most versatile.

Another option to avoid energy problems, is to swap falling spider for Lotus Strike, but that reduces the damage a LOT and I don't recommend it.
Like I said, this is the most , dare I say the only, efficacious use I've found for water magic. It's fragility it's only overcome by it's capacity for damage.

Coupled with a Splinter Weapon rt, you can decimate mobs faster than 3 fire eles combined.

What's the difference between Falling Lotus and Falling Spider? Apart from the lack of poison and gain in energy?

AndrewSX · Nov 25, 2011, 07:03 AM // 07:03

I've used Me-ele build (pun.) but i've chosen Conjure frost, mostly because speccing in Water gives you access to a couple of handy +AR ench (Armor of frost/mist-which gives you IMS too). Tried with different weapons.

The basic bar was something like:
Conjure Frost - IAU - Drunken Master - Armor of Frost/Mist. +
4 attack (1 elite) skill:
-Triple chop - Cyclone axe - optional attack (Enraged/Distract Chop) - WW Attack (Axe).
-Enraged Smash - Crude Swing - optional attack (Crushing Blow) - WW Attack (Hammer).
- JS+FF+DB chain - Moebius Strike/Assault Enchantement (Dagger).

(Sword is a bit too much adrenaline oriented. Didn't try it.)

Just remember to have more prots than usual (used a Life bond on a ele plus normal ST) and SoH + Spliter (SoH stacks with Conjure). A Para can be useful too (take source of burning + ToF! for other dmg reduction).

Vanquished half of eye areas with those... mostly for trolling mobs and burn DP removers (but didn't die sooo much as expected).

HigherMinion · Nov 25, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

I've used Me-ele build (pun.) but i've chosen Conjure frost, mostly because speccing in Water gives you access to a couple of handy +AR ench (Armor of frost/mist-which gives you IMS too). Tried with different weapons.

The basic bar was something like:
Conjure Frost - IAU - Drunken Master - Armor of Frost/Mist. +
4 attack (1 elite) skill:

-Enraged Smash - Crude Swing - optional attack (Crushing Blow) - WW Attack (Hammer).

(Sword is a bit too much adrenaline oriented. Didn't try it.)

Vanquished half of eye areas with those... mostly for trolling mobs and burn DP removers (but didn't die sooo much as expected).

Enraged Smash seems odd... Quite a few people in my guild, as we built around a physway ideal, ran earthshaker on their eles, for some hold to be of some use at all.

On the subject of adrenaline gain, it's easy. Dark Fury on a 5 bloodspec hero (MM or so) and maybe take FGJ and you're off!

AndrewSX · Nov 25, 2011, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Enraged Smash seems odd... Quite a few people in my guild, as we built around a physway ideal, ran earthshaker on their eles, for some hold to be of some use at all.

On the subject of adrenaline gain, it's easy. Dark Fury on a 5 bloodspec hero (MM or so) and maybe take FGJ and you're off!

The bar itself is odd, so no problems!

Btw, i used it for the energy/adren return mostly. The good thing of that kind of bar is having the elite spot free essentially. Dark fury is ok, but i prefer don't have much adren attack (just WWA and another cheap one) anyway, so picked up the only energy based elite, bacause all other ones have a 7-9 strikes cost, excluded forceful blow.

HigherMinion · Nov 25, 2011, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

The bar itself is odd, so no problems!

Btw, i used it for the energy/adren return mostly. The good thing of that kind of bar is having the elite spot free essentially. Dark fury is ok, but i prefer don't have much adren attack (just WWA and another cheap one) anyway, so picked up the only energy based elite, bacause all other ones have a 7-9 strikes cost, excluded forceful blow.

Sure, but remember why you decided to run Meleementalist; because you wanted to be able to *help*. Using single-target hammer skills would defeat the point, imo. I was using 100b, WWA and Sun and Moon Slash, and was able to spam S&MS indefinitely without having to auto at all.

Why are we talking about this in an ele thread... Meh.

Jeydra · Feb 09, 2012, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Guide updated. It's a bit rushed and I didn't personally test out the two builds in the "how to make builds" section, but if I really did start making builds from those two starting points that's what I'll start with. I leave the reader to improve the builds themselves

@skyliner - sorry about the long response time to your post. I simply forgot about it completely. I'll try it out soon (now), although I'll say I think with the strong teambuilds we have available now you can probably get away with dropping Armour of Mist, which in turn means you can run whichever Conjure you want.

EDIT: Tried it out, it has its strengths but overall I find it weak. If you're going to frontline with an Ele, it's just better to spam quick-activating skills (i.e. Jagged Strike -> Fox Fangs -> Death Blossom) for as much damage as possible.

DiogoSilva · Feb 09, 2012, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Hey, Jeydra, what do you think of Major Runes? That's the ones I use for my elements, because I think the -35 HP is not very relevant (not when compared to -75), and the +1 elemental is always better than nothing. I also know that +1 fire is a breakpoint for Mind Blast to give 1 extra energy, and that's when I started to use Majors (even though I only use M.Blast for PvP, but I don't feel like getting a second Blindfold just to change a rune :P).

However, I'm wondering now if they are even worth the loss of HP. How many relevant breakpoints do a Major and a Superior achieve?

I do know E.Attunement+E.Lord+Superior can make Rodgort hit 4s of burning, but I'm not sure how relevant can that be.

EDIT: What about the 5ex Mind Shock? Slightly less spammable, no AoE, but more damage, and with a KD. Seems strong for a spike, but it still suffers from the lack of better non-elite air skills.

Jeydra · Feb 09, 2012, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I think it's not much of a difference. Hitting a breakpoint is nice and all but if you're going to take the health loss you might as well go full out with Superiors. Far as I know there aren't really important breakpoints to hit. Mind Blast isn't important since it's pretty bad in PvE, and in PvP you typically never run anything except Minors (especially with MB Fire, since you can quickly restore energy by spamming Mind Blast on frontliners).

The most important breakpoint is probably that for ER @ 13 Energy Storage, which you don't need Majors and Superiors to hit.

As for Mind Shock, on a player, there's no point committing an elite skill to this when EBVAS -> YMLAD -> FH does it better. Those three skills used in quick unison can total over 400 damage, way more than any spike damage from Mind Shock. Mind Shock is a PvP skill, and barring some major update or functionality change it'll remain a PvP skill.

Gabs88 · Feb 09, 2012, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Blessed vs. Survivor insignias:
Blessed vs. Survivor is a minor issue. The short answer is it doesn’t really matter. You’ll usually be enchanted – you’ll have at least the Attunement on yourself – but many PvE monsters deal so much damage that if you don’t get protted you die, +10 armor or no +10 armor. You may also face large amounts of armor-ignoring damage, and if you get DP’ed then Survivor insignias become increasingly important. That said, +10 armor is +10 armor and against lesser hits you’ll be taking less damage. Take your pick, it isn’t important.

Might be outdated information but lower HP = Higher Aggro from what I know. Think it comes from the good ol' survivor guide on wiki, but if true it means you get more KD's / conditions and stuff for player character which IMO is in favor of HP runes.

skyliner · Feb 29, 2012, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Well I gotta say that the update completely changed things.

Air magic went from being the most effective element to being mediocre, as far as damage is concerned, since invoke and chain are pretty much out of the question for any serious build. Unless you don't mind exhaustion.
To its defense I'll say it has good utility now in the form of Bsurge, and Thunderclap.

Water...well..water is still water. One or two interesting elites now, but the rest is still shit.

Earth is the second most effective element now, surpassed only by fire.
The update to the HM enemies made fire a viable choice again. That, coupled with the update to some of the elite and non elite skills bring fire to the best shape it has been since I can remember.
Why you still use air instead of fire in your AP build is a mystery to me. Specially when you could use fireball in place of chain. Fireball provides possibly more damage on single targets, depending on their AL. Definitely more AoE damage, faster casting time, and no exhaustion.

I've been trying out different fire builds lately, and I've had quite some success. So much that I'm beginning to doubt AP is the absolutely most effective path for an ele in HM.

Jeydra · Feb 29, 2012, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Personally AP Air is still extremely effective, and I continue to use it. Since this guide is oriented for players, Air is still one of the most effective elements out there, although the gap between Air and Fire / Earth has narrowed significantly and may have even closed completely. Agree with the rest of your post though.

If you have any good ideas that don't involve AP, do post it with all accompanying builds etc - I'm curious.